You are using an out of date browser. I find the shoe discussion to be an interesting one. The Brannock size (heel-to-toe) will be the top parent comment. Topics include a wide range of brands from Crockett & Jones to Guidi. Its just a selection of brands, and focus were on cheaper shoes than J. FitZpatrick (although he has a new lower-priced range coming). I think that chukka looks nice. Velasca is an Italian brand that has become popular (they opened on Chiltern Street recently) as has German brand Shoepassion (which makes in Spain). Whites Barrie 8.5D: Felt too tight on the instep brand new. Theyre a good place to start: a baseline of quality. Theyre a solid make with a little paid for the brand, and decent value in the States - though not elsewhere, where duties make them much more expensive. I recently started to be more careful about how I track my wardrobe spending. Last shape feels similar to Parkhurst 10 and Viberg 9.5, except toe is slightly longer and more tapered, heel is snugger, and it's much roomier throughout the instep. regards judging quality by calf not suede? Though, unsure of sizing, thanks. I would also add that instead of trying to prove potential readers wrong, you might accept criticism gracefully and might have more success by doing more research and improving your writing. The nicest pair of shoes I own is a pair of JM Weston oxfords (from their main line, not the Blake line), and I have to work to tell the difference between the two (Weston has shaped heels, for example). Custom ordered these with a combination last of 9.5E toe and 9.5D heel. Carminas actually have better fits than Meermin shoes. I agree that they might be a touch conservative (although they do now have more stylised lasts compared to a few years back), and that youre less likely to get more interesting leathers like museum calf or patinated. There are many levels at tanneries, and cheaper brands dont get the same quality or the first selection. They initially repaired free of charge and when the heels came loose again they replaced for a shoe from their 1880 range. Benzein Parang 42: Its a bit short, but wearable. I appreciate that there are differences, I just care more about some differences than others. The shoe soles of the Carminas are truly some of the best in the market today. Most of my shoes are Crockett & Jones because of the great customer service and the consistent quality. Carmina shoes are stylish, fashionable, chic, and very good-looking. The choice of quality leather materials makes Meermin shoes very versatile and fitting for many wardrobes. It would be nice to see more posts on the different plateaus (?) Thats the opposite advice I received on rain from someone else. Take a ruler and measure between the base of the paper to the marked line. The C&J hangrade, however, is another story. After trying on shoes in Trading Post, the fit is so much better than any western brands Ive ever tried. Why not economical or cost effective or something else which has more neutral/positive connotation unlike cheap. Surprisingly minimal break-in but it's been a long time. A very useful piece for me as Im slowly getting into the joys of proper shoes. I have had a painted patina on several shoes see Berluti here, Dandy here, Carreducker here and G&G here. Some of the shoes on sale are factory seconds and its not something they outrightly advertise. Please support us by using them. They are never mentioning it, but the leather is bookbinded. (And btw, do you know anything about the quality of this Kingsman line they sell on Mr. These are sockless only. On the otherhand Viberg Halketts and 145s fit a bit smaller in the same last. In contrast, Ive always found EGs service excellent but my interactions (outside of lockdown) are entirely based on the Jermyn Street store and I cant say Ive asked for anything unusual. Great read Simon. Maybe a little wide fitting but enjoyable and no breaking in required. Has the quality of Crockett & Jones gone above Carmina lately? But they are still good value for money. . Buying a pair of Meermins is not a decision that you are going to regret, trust me. The new El Salvador ones were too tight and I'd require a 10.5. Vass (via Ascot) here. The brand focuses on doing the basics well and I recommend it to every friend of mine that wants to try goodyear welted shoes for the first time. Exactly!! Also, as this pair is the kind of a pair of is, this hasn't been in the easiest environments. and a pair of natural CXL beefrolls were very loose I could slide right out of them. Not having a physical shop makes a small difference, as does not selling wholesale or using an agent, but that doesnt translate to a shoe thats twice the quality. What Id like to know is how much higher quality will the Trickers be over the Myrqvists? These are all a pretty similar level of make, though you lose a little in the raw-material quality among the cheaper ones, such as Septieme Largeur." 4. I now have 3 different pairs on that Cheaney last. Red Wing Postman: 10D, wore for a year but sold due to low volume toebox. I just purchased them and they are in transit from Sweden. Rock Your Socks- show your sock, shoe & pant combos, *DROP 3/1* NWT $240 Ralph Lauren Purple Label Italian Made Navy Linen & Mulberry Silk Twill Neck Tie, * DROP 3/1 * NWT $225 Ralph Lauren Purple Label Italian Made Square Knit Solid Black Silk Neck Tie, R.M.Williams Comfort Craftsman Tobacco Suede UK 8.5 H. OGIO Golf Travel Bags The Royal Experience! Both these shoemakers offer value far and a way above a UK shoe at a similar price point so they really are worth a look for a person prepared to put in the effort. Make a mark at the front of your longest toe. For the brands mentioned in this article, everyone uses split suedes, except Carmina and TLB Mallorca (C&J mainly have splits for Benchgrade, while they use reverse calf for Handgrade). I dont cover the other brands on this list normally either. These Meermin shoes are comfortable, fashionable, trendy, and highly durable. Noel it is precisely the point you make that has been behind my long standing decision to stay with C&J over all these years. I mean, things can go wrong, I see no problems with that, but then it has to be handled properly and fixed (Ive had a finished pair redone from two different makers, in one case it was since an error was made on one of the things modified on the lasts from the fitting shoe, on the other a small damage happened when the lasts was pulled. They are both leather lined with a full leather insole and both have a Goodyear welted single leather sole. Ive thoroughly enjoyed this article and PS in general. It is something that is destroying the reputation not only for these brands but for bespoke shoes in general. Their leather in general is terrible, even after wearing the shoe almost a year on a regular basis (hoping it will get softer), it keeps being stiff and uncomfortable. From my personal experience, there has been a decline in quality in inverse proportion to price increases. In general, I think this breakdown demonstrates that you still largely get what you pay for with shoes. I'd still stick with your usual 2030 size. Customers get a lot of value from buying Carmina shoes because these fashionable shoes are really sturdy, durable, and long-lasting in the long run. With its classic and timeless design, this last seems to resist the course of time. Vans Old Skool/Era: 11D, solid out of the box. Good arch support, toe box is low, but not too low, and just an all around comfy fit from day 1. Ive never understood why they tried to branch out so much. While, as you mention, most people dont see the difference between a 400 Goodyear welted shoe and a 4,000 bespoke shoe. Oak Street Bootmakers Elston 9.5D: Only tried on, seemed like a good fit, but the boots went back for a return. second chance thread), https://www.instagram.com/sartorially_inclined/, https://www.carminashoemaker.com/wholecut-boots-black-boxcalf-80518, Carmina Green Shell Cordovan Frankenstitch Captoe Jumper Boot 10.5eee(uk) detroit last, RM Williams Comfort Craftsman or Carmina (Rain Last) Chelsea, *SOLD* Carmina Bourbon Shell Cordovan NST boot 8UK Forest last, Alden Color 4 Shell Cordovan Chukkas - Barrie last size 10 D, Alden x Leffot Saddle Shoe - Unglazed Cigar Shell Cordovan and Snuff Suede - 8D Barrie Last. Yes literally hard as rock but very nice looking in their box.. Agree Alan, buyer beware that they are extremely hard to break in. The toe length isn't excessive either. Myrqvist shoes are dreadful. Meermins can be bought at prices between $160 and $210 in the online and offline marketplaces today. These shoes have seen some heavy use and have been worn at least twice as much as the previous pair. Great advice Edric, thanks for helping Oliver. Many people have fallen in love with the Carminas because of how good-looking they are. May have been fine with thinner socks. Although classed as subs, most of the time you would be hard pushed to see why. Also, the chunky sole and derby construction arent that suited to suits. I can see a grey being useful, but that's about all probably. But its worth being sceptical about claims on quality. Worn with normal dress socks. I think either would be fine. If one do good research ahead of placing an order (not just go by brand names and heritage, doesnt work anymore in the bespoke shoe world), choose a brand that suits ones style and preferences for shoes, the chance youll get your best shoes ever are very high. These boots make me want to convert my entire boot collection to White's. I loved the MTO experience there. Not sure I'd feel the same today. TLB Mallorca: I own a wingtip on the Alan last. NF Bootmaker 43.5: Had these modified for a wider waist as the 44 was a bit long. My understanding is that AE is below the likes of Crocketts in terms of make, but thats based on the input of people like Jesper who know more about them than I do. They wear down quickly.. The customer service is great though! While a bespoke suit might of course feel a bit better in how it fits and how you can move, it isnt really more comfortable and better for the health of your body compared to a midrange full canvas suit, in the same way as bespoke shoes. To me, the leather feels similar to Carmina, though possibly even stiffer and more inflexible. Please use the following format to facilitate readability and searchability: This is an example of what a good comment looks like. Think Ill grab a pair of black calf Trickers first, then see how I go. Edward Green)? My favourite pair of C&J have been back to the factory four times for refurbishment. Youre right, the second pair are a little more casual, but I think either would be OK and personally I prefer the shorter apron of the former. If you will be ordering from the Trickers website, I suggest going over the fine print. MASSIVE. Fugashin is similar: the two are competitors in Vietnam. In addition they come in some very handsome styles. Id like to add a little comment on the Vietnam shoe makers here. I even got a pair of Lobb Chapels for 245 in 2009. Still tapered in in waist and heel for a comfortable lock in, but with more room in the toe box and at the ball. Of course choice is more limited, and its more pot luck, but who doesnt love a bargain? I have owned shoes from most of the English brands, and 5-10 Spanish brands and 5-10 Italian brands, and its a quite clear difference (but again, there are exceptions in both directions. This is what separates them from the suit debate. Overall, Meermins are not as good as Carminas because the Meermin shoes seem to be poorly finished when they are compared to the Carminas. Interested to hear your thoughts if one abstracts from the usual price mark-up due to branding etc. I cant comment as to what anything is like higher up the scale but they are both the best looking and most comfortable shoes I own (more than my hiking boots or running shoes). It was snug, but not tight, and I could tell that they would fit perfectly once the sole settles. Do you guys size down or buy your standard Carmina size? After that in the US you get down into much cheaper brands, like John Doe which are made in Mexico. Good point Ben, Im not sure. **The older 2040s are tighter, because of the older style of heel pad, if you find it too tight I recommend considering swapping out the heel pads. Among the many pairs I tried a pair of color 8 CXL beefrolls were the best fitting. I appreciate it doesnt work for everyone geographically, but most of the famous English brands are still manufactured in the Northampton region. Grant Stone Leo 9D: Solid fit. The fit/finish/materials of my $600 Alden boots is markedly different from my $350 Allen Edmonds Dalton boots. Total:1,176 (members:154, guests:1,022), Preorders, Group Made-to-order, trunk shows, and o. Thursday Captain 9D: Felt too tight on the instep brand new. This article, then, is an analysis of the market for mens dress shoes below the Crocketts Handgrade level - all informed by Jesper. Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today! There's a tiny bit more room at the ball too now. Free shipping for many products! **. 9US is too generous, * **Red Wing 8 last (iron ranger)** 8.5D a bit snug on the sides of the mid foot, might've gotten away with 8.5E, * **Rider Boot 42 last** 9D comfortable fit, but lowish instep at the top makes it hard to put them on without shoehorn, * **RM Williams Comfort Craftsman** 8G with a little heel slip, * **TLB Mallorca Alan** 8F UK generous without being overly roomy. Sizing down 1 from your HTT could be tricky. Bought before I understood my size. MP/Barrie 9.5E: Excellent fit right out of the box with thick or thin socks. Take your size in any standard UK shoe (Cheaney, crockett, loake, alfred Sargent, churchs) and add half a size. Slightly low instep and volume. Parkhurst 9D: Great fit. * **Gaziano Girling DG70** 8.5FUK comfortable. Just got re-measured last week after losing some weight (again), Im standing in between 10.5 C/D. If you are in the market for a pair of elegant footwear, Id recommend for you duly consider buying the Carmina shoes. C&J 341 - 9.5 UK. A little little uncomfortable initially, but that's just due to the heel counter. It's a strange feeling last, but I can make it work. I have a pair of black calf oxfords from Morjas and the leather feels rather cheap: it looks like patent leather, only matte not shiny. When you login first time using a Social Login button, we collect your account public profile information shared by Social Login provider, based on your privacy settings. Its a comfortable, yet roomy fit. You are using an out of date browser. Travel Shoes Poll: What shoes do you bring with you on short trips? Sendra is a factory that makes for a lot of cheaper start-ups, because theyre so flexible and have no minimums. In particular, if you're interested in this price bracket, check out, https://shoegazing.com/2016/08/12/review-crownhill-shoes-the-stewart/, https://shoegazing.com/2015/09/06/review-carlos-santos-7201-braga-cognac/, https://www.afinepairofshoes.co.uk/products/berwick-1707-penny-loafer-9628-dark-brown-suede?variant=19309209288766&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5ZCblaOs6gIVdBPTCh32aAttEAEYASABEgKcGvD_BwE, https://www.carminashoemaker.com/penny-loafers-brown-suede-80113, https://britishshoecompany.co.uk/collections/berwick-1707/products/berwick-mens-derby-leather-lace-up-shoes-5768-k6, https://it.velasca.com/collections/francesine-goodyear. I still recall trying them for the first time after having worn Carmina for some years and noticed the difference instantly. Boot socks. Carmina shoes are well-fitting shoes that grip your feet firmly on the go so that you get more balance and stability in your motions. 8.5D may have worked with thinner socks. I've been told that the forest last is the only one available in a wide, but only in mto. And nice finishing and detailing as you mentioned. Somehow lower instep than E? 4 3 3 comments Best Add a Comment hjordan28141 2 yr. ago At least in the States, TLB comes in less expensive than C&J even after the customization upcharge and even if you select the higher-quality Artista line. Unlike tailoring where fashions and preferences can change over time, given your taste and understanding of fit also develops, shoes are mostly immune to change. Im starting to wonder if the differential is worth it. Perhaps my favorite, but I'd need more time with the boots to decide. Theres a lot of marketing in this entry-level market: everyone says their shoes are handcrafted, using the best materials.. Even though mine are lace-ups, breaking in has actually been very easy and I also feel like they are totally worth the money. I think I could tell the difference between a standard C&J and EG from a distance, though I wouldnt like to put that to the test! Some of the best dress shoes that you can get with your money today are the Carminas and the Meermins. Former Affiliate Vendor Threads; a Locked Forum. I shall have to give bespoke shoes a try some day. Very comfortable throughout the midfoot. The comment is only in reference to leather. Decent fit all around and should break in nicely. Looking at the Genova last. So if there is a middle man, its often the brand. In durability? I dont think it is available outside of Japan though. Do you think a knowledgeable observer like yourself could tell the difference in leather quality when they are being worn on someone elses feet (can you spot the difference in leather quality between CJ and EG when someone else is wearing them and your eyes are 6 plus feet away)? Most brands in that price segment have fewer offers for you in terms of lasts. Arch support was a bit painful the first wear but feels great after a few hours. The shoe also felt very light, like it was cheaply constructed. There might be a wide heel seat, for example, but then even some expensive English shoes like John Lobb have that.. I guess they are really strong in the marketing department indeed. For the price, Meermins are actually really good shoes.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[336,280],'footslide_com-leader-2','ezslot_16',118,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-footslide_com-leader-2-0'); In the long run, Carmina shoes are better shoes than Meermins. On an industry level, theres also more variation among the Spanish brands, not least because a lot of them are younger, changing, and trying to fit into an increasingly competitive market. It might be somewhat boring, but the greatest shoe design can be quite a disappointment when theres puckering on seams, marks on the leather or misaligned stitching. He is, at the moment, offering something special forum readers. I'm looking at a cobbler union in a 312 last they recommended 1.5 down from brannock. Finally somebody else who has experienced Meermin shoes as very hard to break in. Morjas, and the other Swedish brands Myrqvist and Skolyx, all use leather board heel stiffeners. But now I can confidently say this was the right choice and it is worth breaking that arch in to get fit and support of this level. I would note that although the shoes I own have tight sole stitching, C&J models without pinking on the soles (for example, the Sydney with rubber soles) are noticeably less sleek. Ive around 20 pairs of Carmina, 2 of C&J mainline and a dozen of C&J hangrade. Great Stone Alexander 8.5D: Mostly great fit but too much heel slippage. I dont think theyre very different, but no I cant compare directly, as I dont own GC RTW. document.getElementById("ak_js_1").setAttribute("value",(new Date()).getTime()); Footslide.com is a full-time participant of the Amazon Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com, 2023 Footslide.com | All Rights Reserved. All Enzos were tried as oxfords and have comfortable insteps with no gap, * **Fugashin Saigon unknown wholecut last** 8UK comfortable, good instep for oxford, * **Gaziano Girling DG70** 8.5EUK comfortable. Loake 024 last (F-Fit): 7UK a bit tight around toes and heel. Viberg 110: Last is shorter than other service boot lasts. My Yanko boots I enjoy in the winter months here in New Zealand (about now). Rafal hails from Poland and is a shoemaker who creates each pair of shoes by himself. There are many places out there that have discussions about shoe sizing across brands and lasts, but I wanted to get a thread started here as well. As of late, I found that the cost differential between Crockett & Jones and Carmina has become more significant. Interesting to hear you sized up for Simpson when based on your description above you Could probably have stayed on an 8. I have handled several other pairs of C&J and this quality to the leather is consistent throughout. I have, however, experienced considerably worse service at some of the establishments of allegedly higher grade companies, whose products I could easily afford, but whose customer service proved to be a very effective deterrent. Throughout this commentary from Jesper, its worth keeping in mind that some of the points are objective, some more subjective. The problem with the Japanese brands is theyre rarely available outside the country. Own a pair of derby shoes in the last now. After further research I stand by my words. Sadly brands like Edward Green, Lobb and Cleverly are now so beyond my price point that I wonder if theyre now in the realm of diminishing returns? No need to own property, employ shop staff etc etc. Meermin offers loafers in simple colours of black, brown, copper, tan, and navy. Total:1,176 (members:154, guests:1,022), Preorders, Group Made-to-order, trunk shows, and o. (Vibergs cxl is different to Thursday boots cxl.). Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Carmina Men's Wing Tip Oxford. Other than that, interesting article. $215 shipped to the US. Thanks for this, Simon. If you also have small heels and struggle to find well fitting good year welt leather shoes, I wholeheartedly recommend Japanese brands who have leather shoes that are specifically designed for the Japanese feet. Your mentioning Jesper`s financial interests is interesting would more call this commercial however. Well Id imagine the aim is to make more money, given that some will know the Cleverley name and want to buy into it. Its a good time to be a consumer in this area.. When I was measured at Alden Madison and an AE store, both actually said I should lean toward 10D TTS, due to my flat feet and low instep, which led to many bad purchases. Thankfully, that isnt true of all high end companies that Ive experienced and, in general, I have found that the quality of the service matches that of the product. Some heel slip until broken in. Way too narrow all around, last too tapered for my taste. Also I feel the toe space is a bit too narrow. Coming up on the PS Shop this Autumn/Winter, Tailoring for travelling: tough, comfortable, plain, So in order to create a frame of reference, I phoned Jesper Ingevaldsson, who writes the website, These are two of the best known shoe brands internationally, with Crocketts a British mainstay and, The English brands at this price level are, The level above that is made in Japan, and includes brands like, . I would like to recommend Trading Post in Japan. RM Williams Comfort Craftsman: 9.5G AUS - Great fit. Based on reviews, Im hopeful. But I would be fairly confident that, as with other English makers, you get pretty much exactly what you pay for. I just had the opportunity to try on some Carminas in store. Will they last much longer? Ive been reading a lot of menswear sites/blogs for years and this is one of the few that does not feel like sponsored content when you read it. Also it seems that Carmina outlet in Granada used to sell Meermin shoes a few years back. **Notes about feet:** Left foot pretty much bang on 9D, right foot maybe 9.25D. There is decent toe room in spite of how tapered the chisel last looks. I ultimately gave up on mine. Baker's recommended 8.5D, but I think I would have been happier with 9D. Finally, this last is fairly conservative, with less sleek lines than the C&J, Carmina, Weston, etc. I guess the issue is that I've not worn an English shoe before. Here there the number of brands increases, particularly with start-ups. But their attempt to branch out has caused them to lose their focus. Meermin shoes come with rubber shoe soles that are hardworn and really sturdy. It is not surprising for people to give high praises to the Carmina shoes due to their high durability and quality build-up. Low arches but not flat. They use plastic heel stiffeners, and the make is solid and English - not that refined. Ive never heard of it or tried it, and probably wouldnt in the future as I say at the top of this most, this isnt my area of expertise really. Hi Simon, you mentioned at the top that Carmina doesnt use plastic heel stiffener. You may learn more here. To me, theyd come in just below C&J, Loding in Canada had a service (a couple years back) that involved a full time patina specialist in Montreal. Foot extends past footbed on sides. Nobody wants a bad fitting pair of strides but at least they wont cause you physical pain. Matty: Late reply, but noticed your comment just now. Fit seemed good at first but toe box is just too narrow for extended wear. If you wanted something sleeker, and dont mind it being slightly more delicate then JM Weston. Ive only been reading PS for a few months, and I immediately got hooked to the point that I spend my free time reading past articles in order to catch up. I mean, if you give the former a high shine they will likely get more attention than the latter with a lesser shine. It's been a while, but I didn't have any complaints after break in. The shoes might look good on the feet, but if you pick them up and look closer, youll notice little errors. The soles on the Trickers town shoes wear down quickly. Its particularly difficult with Oxfords, a Meermin Linea Maestra in a narrow width is the only pair I have that Id say fits spot on, all others are uncomfortable if I need to walk for a decent distance. Really? The instep is high, but massive on the service boot pattern. As someone with narrow feet, and unable to afford bespoke, this is a major bugbear of mine. I'm also guessing that either 9 or 9.5 in their new wide sizes would work well. JF main line would definitely be in Spain 1. You must log in or register to reply here. The Septieme Larguer felt very similar to the Andres Sendra from what I remember. I used DT cushioned boot socks at the time. Kyle from Baker's later told me that my instep width is more like EE/EEE, which is what causes many of my fit issues around the mid-foot. Tanks, if you will. Here's some of my sizing for reference: Meermin RON 11.5 medium Tricker's Bourton 10.5 Tricker's Stow 11 Carmina Xim UNLINED 10.5 Carmina Simpson 11.5 Alden Grant 11.5 Many thanks Simon as usual for the very informative article. Please check Rafal's thread and patronize a true custom maker. Alongside the quality of the leather, something thats lost at this lower price level is consistency. Alexander 9E/9.5D: Excellent fit when worn sockless. Berwick uses corrected grain for some of its models (this is what stopped me from buying a pair). *Although I trust Jespers impartiality, it needs to be stated that he now works for Skolyx, which has its own shoe brand and sells other shoes. We also get your email address to automatically create an account for you in our website. Carminas are better than Meermin shoes today because of one major thing: Better Material Quality. Start-up brands are often good on marketing, on styling and photography. I would also recommend Thomas George Collection (based in Melbourne) and Crownhill Shoes (Spain), two quality brands who sit at the same price range of Morjas/Velasca and they do great bang for the bucket GW Shoes. Cnes (above), for example, has been exhibiting in various fairs around Europe, looking for retailers, and is very nicely made, with a bevelled waist and otherwise refined make. Put simply, if you pay 250 for a shoe you cannot get 500 quality. Might not be the same for everyone, but many who havent tried bespoke shoes would be very happy once they do, that Im quite sure off. Cnes also has great hand-welted shoes too, about 350 I believe, which look a lot more expensive.. I beg to disagree. Im always trying to promote Goodyear-welted shoes, but its not easy when someone has just tried Meermin, and thinks all proper shoes are that hard.