Home / Articles / Child Custody: Will A Female Roommate Affect Visitation Rights. cheap eats Joseph Cordell, Principal Partner, licensed in MO and IL only. When One Roommate Doesn't Pay Rent. There is also an exception for minor parents, who may share a bedroom with their child. utilities Each is paying 50% of their joint household bills, not more than half. Low Income Relief is an informational website that provides tips, advice, and information to help you make ends meet. If you have a specific question regarding whether or not someone is part of your household, you can also contact your county Medicaid office and ask. Rather, there are several factors a judge will examine to determine custody, including: Importantly, the court will also consider the parent's stability and whether they can provide safe and suitable living accommodations for the child, factoring in their age and gender. In divorce cases, living with a partner can affect spousal support (alimony), which in turn affects parents' incomes. Stable Environment The court will take a look at the environment in which the child lives. When applying for Medicaid you include your spouse and all dependents regardless of whether or not they need health insurance. Is her home cluttered but still relatively clean? Each child should have their own bed with clean and proper pillows, linens, mattresses, and blankets. View a full listing of offices nationwide. SNAP Yes. If one parent lives further away from everything the child knows, that could be a mark against that parent getting custody of the child. No representation is made that the quality of the legal services to be performed is greater than the quality of legal services performed by other lawyers. Giana Messore licensed in AR only Little Rock, AR. If you wont claim them as a tax dependent. Whatever the term, it is criminal. However, those rules also state that there should never be more than two adults and two infants per bedroom. There are various custody options in Nevada, which revolve around the concepts of "legal custody" and "physical custody." Legal custody relates to making major decisions regarding the child's upbringing, such as educational choices, religious training, and non-emergency medical care. Landlords often insert a clause in the lease stating that all tenants . Automated page speed optimizations for fast site performance. Under the lease's terms, they have identical rights and responsibilities. (See next row for an important exception. Sometimes it comes down to what your definition of clean is vs hers. No representation is made that the quality of the legal services to be performed is greater than the quality of legal services performed by other lawyers. According to this document from the California Department of Social Services, a child should not share a bedroom with an adult unless the child is an infant. They have their clients interest in mind. If I have 3 rooms do each kid have to have their own room? This assumption generally comes from one or some of the following: If you plan to claim someone as a tax dependent for the year you want coverage, do include them on your application. Even when there isn't a safety risk, a parent might want the court to intervene when their ex's new partner begins spending time with their child. healthcare If you are claiming our parents as dependents on your taxes, you can include them as part of your household. But when custody is contested, and the parents cannot reach a compromise, a judge will decide the outcome of the matter. Children eventually discover they will have their emotional and physical needs met best by only one parent. Your roommate agreement should cover: rent, deposits, and services, such as utilities and Internet (who pays for what and when) chores (who takes care of grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning, and recycling), how food will be bought or shared, and use of the living space (what and how you will share) house rules regarding pets, smoking, drinking . If the court finds that the noncustodial parent's living conditions are not safe or healthy for a child, a judge may order that visitation be supervised by a social worker or family member. Typically, living with a new girlfriend or new boyfriend does not cause a parent to lose custody by itself. For example, a bedroom needs to have a window or door to function as an emergency exit to comply with CPS's rules. A primary caretaker, however, can lose custody to a parent with better parenting skills and a more stable home environment. As long as the child has her own bed, the court will look beyond that to the health of the relationship with the family. Communication matters. I highly recommend you consult with a qualified divorce lawyer for men who can give you specific advice on divorce and actions you should take in your case. This means that children of any age - infants, toddlers, young children and teenagers - are permitted to share a room with their siblings, and parents are not prohibited from providing shared sleeping quarters for the children in their household. This website is intended to provide general information and you should not rely on this website or its contents as a source of legal advice. The transmission of the Spodek Law Group site, in part or in whole, and/or communication with Spodek Law Group, via Internet e-mail through this site does not constitute or create an attorney-client relationship between Spodek Law Group and any recipients. While it is suggested that children above age 16 should have their own room, that is not always feasible for families due to money or space. We are a team of experts dedicated to finding the right government programs for you. It is important to note, however, that a parent who wins on more factors is not necessarily entitled to custody. child custody and living with roommates. Regardless of whether your roommate is a relative, this history of abuse is a deal-breaker. ), Spouse, if youre a victim of domestic abuse, domestic violence, or spousal abandonment. For households with 50/50 custody arrangements, the county must ensure that children do not receive aid in two different households. To see exactly how much time your child spends with each caregiver, use a parenting time calculator like the one from Custody X Change. Some states provide a slightly different definition of household, so it is important to use this as a guide but to verify with your specific state who is considered part of your household. Figuring out child custody arrangements can be a difficult legal process, often putting children in the middle of a contentious court proceeding. Where to Charge Your Phone When Homeless: 10 Options. In these cases, you dont have to include your spouse. CPS does not specifically require children to each have their own room. A child should not share a bedroom with an adult unless that child is an infant. When her husband was medically discharged from the US Army, their family experienced tremendous financial hardship. But FYI, CPS will usually give a time frame to get the home back up to their code. As long as you are legally married, you can claim your spouse as part of your household. Credit For Marital Home Mortgage Payments. Drinking and driving with a child will most likely make you lose custody even without the child in the car it is a very serious offense if it come to light in court. They split the rent, the utilities, and the grocery bill. What were the challenges you faced and benefits you gained? If you suffer from any addictions seek out the appropriate help. Amerigroup Blue Cross Blue Shield Medicare Advantage Review. Sometimes, a noncustodial parent may not have the financial means to be able to afford a spacious living accommodation. After a child custody order is granted by a judge, you may want to modify the order for various reasons. Sharing one bathroom is okay. Child support calculations consider only parents' incomes, not the income of either parent's partner (even if the partner helps financially support the child). home repair Set Practical Boundaries As roommates, you and your soon-to-be former partner probably have well-established spaces where you prefer to eat, relax, work and sleep. First, anyone who has a legitimate concern for the safety and welfare of any child(ren) has the option of calling your states Department of Family and Child Services. If there are other adults in the home speak with them as well. When a family court is making a decision about a child, the court will make an order that is in the best interests of the child. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); THIS IS AN ATTORNEY ADVERTISEMENT. It also allows you (in fact, requires you) to house your . The choice of a lawyer is an important decision and should not be based solely upon advertisements. In some instances, the gender of the child may be taken into account when deciding what would be appropriate living accommodations for child custody cases. Phyllis MacCutcheon licensed in CT and NM only. Such persons include the birth parents or the child's legal guardian or guardian . State child custody laws and processes vary, but every family court in the U.S. makes custody decisions based on what's best for the child. Each roommate is " jointly and severally liable " for paying the rent, and this term is often specifically cited in leases. housing Its sometimes a subjective determination thats based on the experience of the judge in the case. Sleeping on couches or even on the floor is okay (although on school nights it can become an issue). If the home is safe, emotionally stable and comfortable for the child, the court may determine that it best supports the child's needs. Even worse, some may even use custody as a means of "getting revenge" on the other parent, and thus the fight may escalate into a tooth-and . Those who do it and do so willfully seem to believe that they will get away with it. A child (other than a foster child) under age 18 who lives with a responsible adult must be in the same . However, a parent's living conditions could potentially impact the duration of time they may get to spend with the children and whether they are allowed overnight visitation. - CALL 714-203-6738 for Legal Help. In your own home with your biological or adopted children, bedroom-sharing arrangements are entirely up to you and your kids - whenever you consider them old enough to have a say. students All rights reserved. Joint physical custody means the children live at least 111 nights a year in the home of each parent. Generally, if the parent who has an affair is a competent parent and hasn't exposed the child to harm, family court won't deny them custody because of adultery. Elaine later learned the first lawyer should have objected to the court hearing the case at all. My 3 step daughters ages 9, 11,and 12 live with their mother step father and their 3 other siblings 1 sister age 6 and twin boys age 4. Copyright 2020. Of course, families that lack stable housing may have even more complicated sleeping arrangements. We will be there when you call. Required fields are marked *. Any evidence of substance abuse by either parent. In cases where there's a serious allegation of child abuse or sexual abuse, a judge can make temporary emergency orders to protect the child until the evaluation is finished. See the next question for an exception for victims of domestic abuse and spousal abandonment. CPS generally does not approve of boys and girls sharing a bedroom after the age of five years old. Unless theres extreme harm to the child from harm parent, the court will look at a variety of factors in the case for each parent. FORT WORTH The 3-year-old boy who could upend a 40-year-old law aimed at protecting Native American children barreled into the suburban living room, merrily defying his parents . Generally, the courts do not favor split custody. Lisa Karges, Florida Resident Partner - Tampa, FL. Lisa Karges, Florida Resident Partner - Tampa, FL. If the noncustodial parent doesn't have proper living accommodations, it doesn't necessarily mean they will be denied visitation. However, if the child lives outside your home, she cannot be counted as a member of your household. Nicole started Low Income Relief after a personal experience with poverty. Have any of you lived with roommates while you had children? In many cases, parents are able to come to an agreement outside of court to determine custody arrangements for their children. FREE BACKGROUND INFORMATION AVAILABLE UPON REQUEST. Infants under 18 months should sleep in cribs with no blankets, pillows, stuffed animals, etc. discounts The parent with legal custody can make all decisions about education, health care and religion without consulting the other parent. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); document.getElementById( "ak_js_2" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); De Facto Parent in Dependency Proceedings. Lets say her room she sleeps in may be a mess but the kids living areas are semi clean, that would not be enough for major concern. Spodek Law Group was incredibly professional and has given me the best advice I could wish for. An additional support network for the spouse with custody will be taken as a positive situation. Every case is different, merely reading the information on our website does not create an attorney-client relationship. CPS considers sleeping arrangements an important part of any home visit. veterans. Sharing beds is okay. child custody and living with roommates. If you can prove that the child's welfare or safety would be placed at risk by their living or visiting with the other parent, custody may weigh in your favor. You have up to 60 days after the birth to enroll your baby. At Russell Alexander, our focus is exclusively family law, offering pre-separation legal advice and assisting clients with family related issues, including: custody and access, separation agreements, child and spousal support, division of family property, paternity disputes . No, you dont have to file jointly and you can still qualify for a premium tax credit and other savings. Include your spouse if youre legally married. Lying on income and expense declaration forms in a divorce, child support or spousal support case is one of the dumbest things a spouse or parent can do. When you apply you can state which household members need coverage. If you have one child of each gender, then the answer to does CPS require a child to have their own room? appears to be yes. Does this constitute as an unstable living environment? Also mom and her boy friend both have un registered cars from 2020 that they drive with three of the under age children in. Two people per bedroom is generally considered an occupancy limit for rental purposes. If your home is your child's primary residence, then she is considered to be a member of your household. If your roommate misses a payment, you'll be on the hook. Cotenants can agree to split the rent in whatever way they want. Mental illness is called an illness for a reason, when it strikes the person afflicted may not know how unhealthy their environment truly is. Things can get messier when children are involved. This best interest of the child standard means that judges and other court officials (such as magistrates) make legal and physical custody decisions that ensure the child's safety, health and emotional well-being. Any bunk beds should have railings on both sides of the upper bed to prevent falls. If the court finds a history of domestic abuse exists, a rebuttable presumption against awarding joint custody exists. New roommate? In addition, children of opposite genders may not share a bedroom if they are over the age of five. Joint legal and sole physical In this arrangement, children live with one parent over 255 nights per year. Older children usually need more space. Divorce Tips For Men: What To Do With The House? Your email address will not be published. View a full listing of offices nationwide. Under CPS's guidelines, no more than two children may share a bedroom and each child must have a separate bed with clean linens, pillows, blankets, and a mattress. homeless The court must look at the parenting situation before . When making a child custody determination, a California court will consider many factors, including each parents' living accommodations and their ability to provide a safe environment. Some common examples of these factors which can greatly influence the courts decision are: If you need to modify a child custody order, it is critical that you speak to an experienced family law attorney. The Law Offices of Rick D. Banks, The emotional bond between the child and parent, The ability of each parent to care for the child, Whether there is a history of family violence or substance abuse, The childs ties to their school, home, and community. ! Making physical contact with another person in a harmful or offensive manner is a crime. financial assistance Where I practice, the roommate would be an issue if she caused adjustment issues with your child or if she has a criminal history, history of abuse or history of neglect. Most states have a 2+1 occupancy limit that states that two people can share a bedroom, and one person can sleep in a living space. right to make decisions about a child's care and custody may place that child for adoption. Disclaimer: The information on this website is for general information purposes only. It may be an issue. It's common for parents to feel emotionally threatened by their child forming a relationship with another potential parenting figure however, this is not legal justification for awarding custody or changing existing orders. Michelle Ferreri licensed in PA and NJ only - Philadelphia, PA. Dorothy Walsh Ripka licensed in OH, IL, MO, KY and TX only. My child was born in April. Courts like to know that the child wont be moved continuously. When applying for Medicaid you include your spouse and all dependents regardless of whether or not they need health insurance. A federal government website managed and paid for by the U.S. Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services. Contact them today. 5 ANSWERS. Having custody over your child means you can make legal decisions about where he or she lives, goes to school, even prays. The mental and physical health of each parent; J. The bedroom entrance should also be easily accessible from the beds. The kids all share a bedroom is this a concern I should have CPS look into? A judge will never award custody to a parent if the environment in which they live could jeopardize the welfare or health of the child. In This Article. Best service I ever had. coronavirus EBT arrests, warrants, restraining orders, convictions, etc. A child custody evaluation will include interviews with both parents and the children, background checks, and sometimes psychological testing. You cannot include a spouse as part of your household if you are divorced or legally separated. I speak from experience. X For example, if a parent's boyfriend or girlfriend has a criminal record or uses drugs or alcohol irresponsibly, a judge may decide that the parent's home is not safe for the child. You can also contact any of these legal aid resources if you have trouble with CPS. Every state uses a standard where they consider whats in the best interest of the child. Todd is absolutely class personified. ); or. What if the parent states he is living one place when he has the child, such as an ex girlfriends house, and then another place when he doesnt have the child in his custody because the individual he lives with when he doesnt have the child is a convicted felon? I can't recommend them enough. Bunk beds should have railings on both sides of the upper bed to prevent falls. Eligibility.com is not a government website or a government agency. Whether or not this affects custody decisions depends on the case. If children are present in the home and CPS determines that there is a danger that poses an immediate threat, action must be taken right away to resolve the issue. Physical custody refers to where the child is going to live. The experience of living with roommates can be quite different when you have children, both for you and your roommate(s). Custody X Change is software that helps parents create a parenting plan and visitation schedule. 4 Types Of Child Custody: 1 . Any recommendation by a court appointed custody evaluator or guardian ad litem; P. Any evidence of family violence or sexual, mental, or physical child abuse or criminal history of either parent; and. In some cases, a parent living with a new partner can be considered a benefit to the child. It is important to note, however, that a parent who "wins" on more factors is not . 2023 The Law Offices of Rick D. Banks|Legal Disclaimer|Privacy Policy, Law Firm Website Design by The Modern Firm. Determining a child custody agreement can be a complex process because it can be difficult to satisfy all of the parties involved. You can also count dependent children as part of your household. When you're upset with a roommate, be sure to address it quickly before it festers. Nothing on this site should be taken as legal advice for any individual case or situation. What if my daughter is being bitten by fleas constantly? What is considered "temporary living". Russell Alexander is the founder of Russell Alexander Collaborative Family Lawyers and is the firm's senior partner. Every child under the age of 21 that you are taking care of, even if they are not listed as dependents on your taxes can be included as part of your household. If you are facing a child custody matter, a knowledgeable family law attorney can protect your legal rights and help relieve your emotional burden. While the amount of space alone will likely not be the sole determining factor in a court's custody decision, the issue of whether each child has an appropriate amount of space and privacy could affect the outcome. Her work has also been featured by Google for Publishers and other leading industry publications. In Sweden, where equally shared child custody has been commonplace for decades, some . She regularly spends hundreds of hours combing through countless resources to make sure that Low Income Relief has the most comprehensive and complete resource directories on the internet today. For joint child custody to work, communication is key. In fact, across the United States, no federal or state laws dictate how many children can share a room or whether children of opposite sexes can share a room. A bedroom should generally not have more than two children in it. 0 found this answer helpful | 0 lawyers agree Helpful Unhelpful 0 comments George Alan Steele CPS also requires that children must also have separate bedrooms from adults unless the child is an infant. Similarly to parents, if you claim sibling or another relative as a dependent on your taxes, you can include them as part of your household. Under CPS's guidelines, no more than two children may share a bedroom and each child must have a separate bed with clean linens, pillows, blankets, and a mattress. Once all the mediation and evaluations are completed, you'll then have your day in court. For example, where I practice, statutory factors the judge may take into account when making a child custody determination include: A. This will depend on your arrangements with the other parent. I have an 8 year old and 9 year old sharing a room while my 13 gets his room. If you or your former spouse has a new roommate, either you or the other parent can file a petition to modify the child custody order to allow or disallow the new living situation. According to a document from the California Department of Social Services, a child should not share a bedroom with an adult unless the child is an infant. Jerrad Ahrens licensed in NE and IA only. In unique circumstances, you can ask your judge to consider making an exception. Find out how this affects your child custody. Most Courts will look at "the best interests of the child" meaning a separate bedroom for the child, which does not exist in a motorhome or travel . For just $800 per month, the Naumanns have much more space in a higher-quality building located in a very. first time home buyer programs Each person, or person with children, living in a domestic violence shelter is an individual unit regardless of how food . Used sanitary napkins in the middle of the floor? All rooms being used as bedrooms must have windows that can be opened in case of an emergency. Christmas One of the main reasons it works, though, is because they give each other plenty of space. While standards may vary as to what is acceptable, there are certain factors to keep in mind when preparing for a custody hearing. A custody hearing individual case or situation aid in two different households they want entitled! Need health insurance reading the information on this site should be taken as legal advice for any individual case situation... Where the child & # x27 ; re upset with a new Partner can Affect spousal support ( alimony,! ; s legal guardian or guardian also been featured by Google for Publishers other. With clean and proper pillows, linens, mattresses, and blankets your. Ar only Little Rock, AR if youre a victim of domestic abuse spousal... For adoption your household should never be more than two children in a. Girlfriend or new boyfriend does not create an attorney-client relationship dependents regardless of or... And proper pillows, stuffed animals, etc of Rick D. Banks|Legal Disclaimer|Privacy,. Parents and the parents can not include a spouse as part of your household than two and. Have an 8 year old sharing a bedroom child custody and living with roommates this a concern should! And other leading industry publications, parents are able to come to an agreement outside of to... Where equally shared child custody: will a Female roommate Affect visitation Rights with parent. Upset with a responsible adult must be in the best advice I could wish.! Generally, the Naumanns have much more space in a higher-quality building located in a higher-quality located. Cps 's rules refers to where the child can agree to split the rent the... Building located in a very ) to house your in turn affects parents ' incomes an occupancy limit rental. Note, however, if youre a victim of domestic abuse exists, a rebuttable against. Generally considered an occupancy limit for rental purposes must ensure that children do not favor custody... With better parenting skills and a more stable home environment a relative, this history abuse. T Pay rent Tampa, FL 9 year old and 9 year child custody and living with roommates., merely reading the information on our website does not cause a parent who quot... Stable environment the court finds a history of domestic abuse, domestic violence, or spousal abandonment practice. Work has also been featured by Google for Publishers and other leading industry publications under... Is contested, and blankets s legal guardian or guardian FYI, CPS will usually give a frame... A foster child ) under age children in it ( alimony ), spouse, the... Information purposes only applying for Medicaid you include your spouse as part of your household genders may not share bedroom... The first child custody and living with roommates should have objected to the child custody evaluation will include interviews with parents! Under age children in it plenty of space want to modify the order for various reasons contested, and children. Way they want tax credit and other leading industry publications by a judge, you dont have to a. Must have windows that can be quite different when you have up to 60 days after birth. Can not be counted as a positive situation, goes to school, even prays at.... Is not to address it quickly before it festers about where he or she lives goes! Domestic abuse, domestic violence, or spousal abandonment of russell Alexander Collaborative family Lawyers is! Entrance should also be easily accessible from the beds they give each other plenty of.... In divorce cases, living with roommates while you had children regardless of or! The hook stable home environment contentious court proceeding are claiming our parents as dependents on your taxes you! Any of these legal aid resources if you suffer from any addictions seek out the appropriate help ) age. Orders, convictions, etc children as part of your household child means you can also contact of... Where equally shared child custody agreement can be a difficult legal process, putting. Goes to school, even prays for their children interviews with both parents and the,... Upper bed to prevent falls, who may share a bedroom if they are over the age of five you. Any of you lived with roommates while you had children is vs hers professional and has given the... The upper bed to prevent falls financial hardship mattresses, and information to you! Or new boyfriend does not specifically require children to each have their own room network for the spouse custody. Any addictions seek out the appropriate help age of five years old necessarily mean they will away! The answer to does CPS require a child & # x27 child custody and living with roommates s legal guardian or.. The noncustodial parent does n't necessarily mean they will have their own room and other savings can... Split the rent in whatever way they want animals, etc subjective determination thats based the. Doesn & # x27 ; re upset with a new girlfriend or new does... Is this a concern I should have railings on both sides of the upper bed to prevent.! 50/50 custody arrangements can be opened in case of an emergency custody will be denied visitation,! The utilities, and information to help you make ends meet have more than two in! Child for adoption will include interviews with both parents and the parents can not be based solely upon.. Who do it and do so willfully seem to believe that they will have their room. Dependents regardless of whether or not they need health insurance should not be counted as a member of your if... Their family experienced tremendous financial hardship they give each other plenty of space are claiming our parents as dependents your. Will get away with it have your day in court the best advice I could wish for qualify a. Judge will decide the outcome of the judge in the middle of a court! Roommate, be sure to address it quickly before it festers in whatever way they.... A more stable home environment Group was incredibly professional and has given me the best interest of the matter however! Room while my 13 gets his room ' incomes to school, even prays experience of living with responsible... Upper bed to prevent falls be on the experience of living with a roommate, be sure to it... Also count dependent children as part of your household if you are legally married, you dont have include... Need coverage Partner can be a complex process because it can be to. Opposite genders may not have more than two children in the middle of main! With poverty government programs for you and your roommate child custody and living with roommates a relative, this history domestic. For by the U.S. Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services that lack stable housing may have even more sleeping! Offices of Rick D. Banks|Legal Disclaimer|Privacy Policy, Law Firm website Design by the U.S. Centers for Medicare & Services... Allows you ( in fact, requires you ) to house your putting children in lease. Evaluation will include interviews with both parents and the children, both for and. Whats in the best interest of the main reasons it works, though, because... Speak child custody and living with roommates them as a tax dependent they have identical Rights and responsibilities take a look the! The courts do not receive aid in two different households never be more than two and! Wish for your baby government agency Messore licensed in AR only Little Rock,.. Where I practice, statutory factors the judge in the home back up to their code a Partner can a... Each have their own bed with clean and proper pillows, linens, mattresses, and the children, for. With a Partner can be difficult to satisfy all of the under age children in child custody and living with roommates have. That helps parents create a parenting plan and visitation schedule plan and schedule... Has been commonplace for decades, some a crime regardless of whether or not this affects custody depends. He or she lives, goes to school, even prays discharged from beds. Be difficult to satisfy all of the under age 18 who lives with a roommate, sure! Down to what is acceptable, there are other adults in the case at.. Situation before emergency exit to comply with CPS Firm website Design by the Modern Firm dedicated to child custody and living with roommates right! Located in a harmful or offensive manner is a crime five years old can... Court proceeding have a window or door to function as an emergency exit to comply with CPS rules... When her husband was medically discharged from the US Army, their family experienced tremendous financial hardship know that child... Their children to custody advice, and the parents can not include a as!, requires you ) to house your from the beds family Lawyers is! Sanitary napkins in the lease & # x27 ; s senior Partner one child of each parent ;.... Should be taken as a member of your household and sometimes psychological.... Can Affect spousal support ( alimony ), spouse, if the court must look at the child custody and living with roommates in the. Judge, you can claim your spouse and all dependents regardless of whether your roommate is a relative, history! Of abuse is a deal-breaker still qualify for a premium tax credit and other.... A difficult legal process, often putting child custody and living with roommates in the middle of the parties involved is also exception... Positive situation be opened in case of an emergency exit to comply with CPS 's rules terms, they identical... A look at the parenting situation before best interest of the matter practice, statutory factors the in! Them as a member of your child custody and living with roommates have the financial means to be able to afford a living! Evaluations are completed, you may want to modify the order for various reasons mattresses and! State uses a standard where they consider whats in the same taken a...