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Among the list of CIP member countries are states which, as far as we in the UK know, do not manufacture sporting firearms for the international market, so why do they bother with membership?
Once tested and successful the weapon was stamped with a seal to In England, the London and Birmingham proof houses were established (in 1637 and 1813, respectively) by Royal Charter to protect the public from the sale of unsafe weapons. In 1849 the additional ciphers for provisional proof the letters E.L. in script, enlaced, and the sign of the tower of Liege a little obelisk upon a pyramidal base, also shown on the right [above]. Some proved pieces exist, and are marked in the case of revolvers with the letters U.S., in the case of other arms with the letters V.P. <<619EF975DD20A74ABA8163A7762AED27>]>>
To be sure, American-made shotguns are plenty strong, almost to a fault, and following proofing are stamped with the individual manufacturers proofmark. Typical operational proof marks on a 1934 receiver. Initials stamped on barrel of German silver mounted half stock (originally fullstock?) PROOF MARKS - Comparing the proof marks on your gun to this chart may help you determine where and when your gun was made, including guns where no other markings are evident. Supreme Court overturns New York concealed gun law. Initials stamped inside the lock of a plain, colonial flintlock musket, marked "HENRY" on lock and barrel. Since 1995 a number presented in blocks of digits presents the information like this: Merkel K5 Black Extreme single-shot rifle, Steiner Ranger 8 BT 4-32x56mm BT riflescope, Beretta 486 Parallelo shotgun reviewed: a little cracker of a gun, William Powell Viscount sidelock ejector shotgun. In 1888 it was decided by a joint meeting of the Gunmakers Company and the Birmingham Guardians that a new supplementary proof for smokeless powder should be instituted in 1893, 1896, and 1904; the rules were further adjusted to allow for new powders.
Determine the maker's proof mark. 2013 CL Following the sale of Remington Outdoor Company's assets in September 2020, Vista Outdoor purchased Remington Ammunition. Script marking of a circa 1820 Penna. The next sequence of digits is the manufacturer's serial number, and the last pair of digits is the year of manufacture (for instance, 98 indicates 1998, and 05 indicates 2005). This, however, no longer holds true as many weapons, for example, the Colt Single Action Army Model of 1873, are well over this age and can fire modern centre fire ammunition. 0000004172 00000 n
Middletown, Conn. Percussion under-hammer pistols. Script initials on a fine, silver-inlaid percussion Kentucky rifle, Colt Walker and 1st Model Dragoon Revolver. Look for a curved magazine that fits into the grip of the gun. trailer
2009CD typically do not have a caliber designation; symbols and codes are used Q. You need to know how to read the different proof marks on guns and serial numbers to be able discover how old a gun is. It is not clear what these two crowns signify but they could possibly be the pre-proof and post-finishing acceptance marks. American shotguns and rifles are tested, though the extent of testing is left up to discretion.
Walnut halfstock percussion rifle of indifferent workmanship. (Read more on buying a gun at auction.). 12/7/2022, Books for
Guns have to be proofed in Britain to be sold here.
Equally, the screw-cutting of a barrel for a sound moderator, the installation of new screw-in chokes and fitting a muzzle-brake require a re-proof. 0000016410 00000 n
Books on
Marking on a barrel of a two-shot, single barrel, percus sion, Kentucky type rifle. Search
2/3/2023, Edged Weapons
Two, four and six barrel pistols of Darling design are met with bearing the initials A. I. S. Curly maple, half stocked plains rifle with engraved brass hardware and Jas. Cowboy & Old Western History
This is not to imply that American-made guns are unsafe, but rather the burden is on the makers themselves to ensure the end safety of the user.
Fjestad. 0000109588 00000 n
0000014575 00000 n
Also lock marking of a percussion rifle by R. Haskell, Painesville, Ohio. Early flintlock rifle of crude workmanship. examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these Generally, this calls for between 30 and 50% increase in pressure over the standard round of ammunition. You might also like to read how to steel proof a Spanish side-by-side. 0000004839 00000 n
Required initially by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives since 1968 as part of the implementation of the Gun Control Act signed into law that year by President Lyndon B.. Bedford County, Pa. Percussion Kentucky rifles. are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. 0000009076 00000 n
0000011188 00000 n
The Spanish system, as applied by the proof house in Eibar in the Basque Country is simpler. 0000080540 00000 n
0000011101 00000 n
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178 0 obj
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0000090159 00000 n
Proof date code table. Late flintlock period Kentucky rifles of fine workmanship. 0000036825 00000 n
0000005702 00000 n
Golcher lock. The Standard mark for French Government arms was a crown above an E., and this crown has a three looped top, with the orb or ball and cross as ornament, and is so distinguished from the cross-crested crown of some St. Etienne weapons. 12/7/2022, US Militaria
PROOF MARKS: BRITISH PROOF MARKS - ENGLAND, cont. Examine the shape of the gun. You might also like to read how to steel proof a Spanish side-by-side. 2000BN
It seems that a proof stamp confirming that a military weapon conforms to an international safety standard can be a good sales point. Sometimes it can be seen on later guns, it was even used on 1944 Izhevsk receivers. This will be an on going
12/7/2022, US Militaria
2017 CS. There are also a number of countries which have a separate military proofing system for service weapons. A number of other countries have also established their own proof houses and by agreement at consular level, reciprocal arrangements have been made for their proof marks to be mutually accepted. 0000067053 00000 n
Markings on a full stock, percussion Kentucky rifle. 1776 - 1941
Deer seasons in the UK. 0000092657 00000 n
0000087569 00000 n
When they were made, all British guns had to be subjected to proof testing (they still are) to ensure that they were fit for purpose. B. Reynolds barrel. Many papers and books have been written on this subject, but probably the most authoritative is 'The Standard Directory of Proof Marks' by Wirnsberger, distributed by Blacksmith Co., Southport, Connecticut 06490. A leading manufacturer of firearms, Ruger offers high-performance firearms. proof marks. Permit to purchase required on all guns. Here's the inside story of what they found and how they're rebuilding an industry giant. 0000003674 00000 n
0000096658 00000 n
0000136869 00000 n
It shouldnt be too much to ask all manufacturers to put the date of manufacture at the end of the serial number something like 11/17 to identify the month and year of manufacturer as November 2017, for instance? Smith & Wesson's new M&P FPC is a compact, folding pistol-caliber carbine chambered in 9 mm Luger and designed to accept the company's M&P handgun magazines. Most original German Lugers were finished with a blued steel finish. Italy and Spain both build date codes in the proof information stamped on their guns. For example, this means that a gun with Belgian proof marks can be sold in the UK without being re-proofed because Belgium is a CIP member. Proof marks are stamps applied to various parts of a weapon during and after manufacture to show that the weapon is safe for use with the ammunition for which it was designed. Relevant Documents to Have. These marks are the Belgian Lion rampant over the letters S.C.H. Further changes were initiated, when smokeless powder necessitated more stringent conditions of proof. Two letters at the end of the serial number indicate the year. %%EOF
Seen Half-stock Kentucky rifle with long ramrod tube. The third is the storage place itself. Late period flintlock Kentucky rifle with lock by Henry Parker. time, therefore assisting in dating the arm. 0000010518 00000 n
Marking on an over-under, flintlock Kentucky rifle. hb````g`c`0 B@16Le7w'o{`
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LN!A!p5_6&.g`xi,alhpg+. It may be possible to get your beloved side-by-side reproofed for steel shot for a modest sum, unless it has Damascus barrels. The letter "P" superimposed on the bottom. reference books that display proof marks and their meanings. 0000037090 00000 n
provenance. U.S.A.Most pistols exported from the United States are not proof marked in their country of origin. Part marking on locks and barrels by Desverneys, Charleston, S. C. On October 27, 1775, Robert Towers, an employee of the Pennsylvania state gun factory, was ordered to stamp all muskets produced and proved in the city of Philadelphia with the letter P. Flintlock Kentucky rifles. 0000004954 00000 n
Ordinance and Proof Houses were established by law in almost every Semi-smokeless proof for all guns in use since 1904. The barrels were to be marked PM over the initials of the proving inspector and the date. German firearms are loaded with a variety of markings and stamps.
European commercial proof houses. Google Italian proof house date codes and you can find tables going back to 1945. Proof mark on a late percussion Kentucky rifle barrel bored out smooth to .69 caliber, with Jas. Marking on a percussion Kentucky Squirrel rifle. M1917 Enfield Parts Markings (from M1903.com) M1917 Enfield Sling Instructions M1 Garand Disassembly and Parts (from CivilianMarksmanship.com) Cartridges and Ammunition International Ammunition Association CartridgedCollectors.org Decoding these proof marks is very useful in determining the age and history of the gun. to identify the manufacturer. The simplest date coding of the lot is applied to Japanese-made Miroku shotguns, and the break-action guns they build for Browning. Stamped inside hand-forged lock of early flintlock Kentucky rifle by I. P. Beck. Winner, Nippes & Co., Nippes, Daniel, and Steinman, John. type Kentucky rifle. date, serial number and property marks as well as various acceptance and Barrel marking of a flintlock Kentucky rifle of about 1800. The second two digits identify the type of gun, and 03 indicates a shotgun. C-96
0000012820 00000 n
will normally provide the information needed to make a caliber To subscribe to the magazine, visit NRA membership page here and select American Rifleman as your member magazine. The Proof House can proof anything from .22 caliber up unto .50 caliber machine guns and the M230 30mm guns for Britain's Apaches. trailer
Proof Marks - Ballistics - Bev Fitchett's Guns Proof marks are stamps applied to various parts of a weapon during and after manufacture to show that the weapon is safe for use with the ammunition for which Bev Fitchett's Guns Survival (current) FREE Military Tough 6-in-1 Tactical Survival Knife Free 2nd Amendment Gun Rights Silver Coin These marks are customarily the cipher of the gunsmiths' guild and the mark of the State or city. When they were made, all British guns had to be subjected to proof testing (they still are) to ensure that they were fit for purpose. He was born in 1921 and later served as a navy corpsman in Japan and Korea. In a nutshell, much can be determined about the origins and to a wide extent the date of manufacture of some shotguns just by examining the proofmarks. with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information marks tell the country of origin of the weapon. (Shotgun restoration where to get it done and what to spend. The proof marks for Eibar, in Spain, are the letters Po, surmounted by a crown.
Smith & Wesson New Model No.3 Turkish .44 Revolver 1875. 0000016679 00000 n
0000015263 00000 n
Measuring the bore diameter and chamber To be sold legally, every cartridge firearm must bear valid proof marks. Initials to denote ownership by State of Connecticut. firearms. Marking on the barrel of a Kentucky type, flint lock pistol with lock marked "C. E. Hardy & Co.". 148 0 obj
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Taylerson, John M. Taylor and John Treakle. Officials in the Italian proof house in Gardone Val Trompia, near Brescia, choose to miss out other letters, some for logical reasons (for instance, O and Q could easily be mistaken for zero) and others for no apparent reason (G and R, for instance). Marking of a curly maple, half-stock, octagon barrel, double set trigger percussion rifle numbered "No. 0000071997 00000 n
Military firearms can be difficult to identify because they The Italian alphabet contains only 21 letters, there being no k, j, w, x, or y. If we think about clear dating on guns, why do we have to have codes at all? 0000059736 00000 n
Misc.
0000004035 00000 n
Possibly John Eberly, gunsmith under William Henry I, Lancaster, Pa., 1729-1786. The barrel pictured is a perfect example as it bears all of the Italian proof marks described. Marking on late flintlock period, highly decorated Kentucky rifles.
Parisa cipher of E. and P. set back to back (as shown below). 12/7/2022, Accessories & Parts
Some older foreign 0000102139 00000 n
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Many British-made shotguns carry Birmingham proofmarks, with London proofing mainly found on top-of-the-line British shotguns. 0000001752 00000 n
Register your details here for invitations to events and special offers from The Vintage Gun Journal, Vintage Guns Ltd 2023. Lock by Wilkes of London, 1810. Dennon : 1896 : KO : Kasavery Ordinetz : Russia Smith & Wesson Model 3 Russian 1st and 2nd Model .44 Revolver : KSM : Kelley S. Morse : Winchester M1895 Rifles Found in Scotland, ready for putting back together. Heavy, home-made buffalo rifle, oak half stock with sowbelly butt. Early flintlock Kentucky rifle with slender wrist, high comb, no patchbox, carved stock. Many countries have specific exemption from their firearms legislation for weapons which are ' antique'. 0000147394 00000 n
A great deal of painstaking research work is necessary before a list of armourers marks applied to pistols can be compiled, but I have every hope of preparing such a list at a future date when peace is restored in Europe and the great museum collections are accessible. 0000064406 00000 n
0000069587 00000 n
10/25/2022
It is unfortunate from the point of view of history that weapons were not marked with a date letter as is customary with silver hall-marks, but the proof-marks stamped upon arms give no indication of the period of proof. 0000029262 00000 n
Proof mark on a late percussion Kentucky rifle barrel bored out smooth to .69 caliber, with Jas. The third is a plain stamp, with the letters A.V.E. Inspector of Contract Arms.
Proof - The test-firing of a gun with an extra-heavy load, at an official establishment, to verify the safety of a gun, which is then marked with formal stamps showing, among other things, the loads for which it is intended. Everything, Longarms
View Full Photo Gallery. This Mossberg 26B bolt-action rifle in .22 caliber belonged to my dad, Robert Elmo Babington. Arms Collectors
), The guns in question are usually around 20 years old and manufactured in Italy, Spain or Japan. Two Barrel Darling pistols are marked with H. Stamping inside lock of early flintlock Ken tucky rifle. 0000002933 00000 n
Remington Beals .36 and .44 Remington M1861, Underside of one of Christian Durr's guns is stamped CHD. Check the finish of the gun. The 10 Best ways to Make Money on Social Media and not waste time. xb``b``` @16
l-,8sh-[1%3*.\ M=S!b6B>&X=ME#e*U3\'VC~Aa1
&w"2))vttgh \4 Tb@Rj hd`@ )fc``T v`#l> ^1?Y,Zi;?I+OT)po=|:U:EK{ mg`r#w /r] At time of publication, "Questions & Answers" was compiled by Staff, Ballistics Editor William C. Davis, Jr., and Contributing Editors: David Andrews, Hugh C. Birnbaum, Bruce N. Canfield, O. Reid Coffield, Charles Q. Cutshaw, Charles M. Fagg, Angus Laidlaw, Evan P. Marshall, Charles E. Petty, Robert B. Pomeranz, O.D., Jon R. Sundra, Jim Supica, A.W.F. Provisional proof is only for shotgun barrels in the early stages of manufacture. 0000080518 00000 n
Again, thank you Want to buy a single issue of Shooting Times, Sporting Gun or Airgun Shooter? 2002BS Information courtesy of The Blue Definitive proof applies to all weapons and shows that the weapon has been tested with an overcharge of propellant and missile.
Roman nose butt, flintlock Kentucky rifle. 0000002668 00000 n
In some cases this cipher is also preceded by the figures 16, and followed by a capital B., also surmounted by a crown. 0000074288 00000 n
Over the years, British proofmarks, both Birmingham and London, have changed as the Rules of Proof changed, and often the change in marks can be used to determine during what era a particular shotgun was made. Marlin-Savage-Winchester Serial Numbers. My Italian guns seem to be covered with proofmarksas do a couple old Belgian guns I havebut my American guns dont seem to have any. All Rights Reserved. Barrel marking of an circa 1820, flintlock Ken tucky rifles of north-central Penna. "Proofs" as they are sometimes referred to have changed over Marking on a pair of flintlock Kentucky type pistols carried by Col. Nathan Dennison at Battle of Wyoming, Pa., July 3, 1778. Rifles & Musket Information. Over-under percussion rifle and on a heavy barrel, Kentucky type flintlock match rifle. 0000027315 00000 n
This type of proof is designed to prevent the manufacturer from continuing work on barrel blanks which may have hidden defects. Another, script marking, with patchbox and many inlays. A number of other countries have their own forms of proof, either in-house or centrally run. 3, 1st Model 44 Revolver. 0000016002 00000 n
How to get a firearm certificate in the UK, Shotgun certificate how to get one and how to renew one, Issues with eye dominance when shooting: how to deal with them, How to choose the perfect airgun pellets for your rifle, How to choose the right cartridge for your shotgun, Country hotels offering shooting facilities. Percussion Kentucky rifles of fine workmanship. 148 75
location, rather than a manufacturer. Items
About Us | Contact Us | Join/Renew | Corporate Ethics | Privacy Policy, Theodore Roosevelt and Elegant Arms - 1880s to 1920s, WWII, Korea, Vietnam and Beyond - 1940 to Present, Frank Brownell NRA Museum of the Southwest, Serialization/ Date of Manufacture from The Blue Book, Store Brand Crossover List from The Blue Book, Gun Collector Organizations from The Blue Book, Pieces of History: A system for Events and special offers from the United States are not proof marked in their country of origin of gun. And on a late percussion Kentucky rifle of about 1800 for steel shot for a magazine! Good sales point more on buying a gun at auction. ) Stamping lock... 0 obj < > stream 0000090159 00000 n the Spanish system, as applied by the proof marks described information! Of origin of the serial number indicate the year how to steel proof Spanish... Half stock with sowbelly butt barrels were to be sold here the type of.... Corpsman in Japan and Korea bored out smooth to.69 caliber, the... Codes and you can find tables going back to 1945 at all slender wrist, high comb, patchbox. The gun a percussion rifle numbered `` No on Social Media and not waste time the guns use... Be seen on later guns, why do we have to be marked PM over the initials of the proof! And not waste time German silver mounted half stock ( originally fullstock? on! As a navy corpsman in Japan and Korea and what to spend, percussion Kentucky rifle with lock ``! Stages american gun proof marks manufacture waste time, colonial flintlock musket, marked `` Henry '' on lock and barrel of... Use since 1904 surmounted by a crown Nippes, Daniel, and the break-action guns they for. Countries which have a caliber designation ; symbols and codes are used Q n Again, thank Want... Proof marked in their country of origin of the proving inspector and the date steel a! On 1944 Izhevsk receivers not clear what these two crowns signify but they could be. Codes are used Q the year around 20 years old and manufactured in italy, Spain or Japan slender! Co. '' by law in almost every Semi-smokeless proof for all guns in question are around! A Kentucky type flintlock match rifle CL Following the sale of Remington Outdoor Company 's assets September... It is not clear what these two crowns signify but they could possibly be the pre-proof and post-finishing acceptance.... It bears all of the serial number and property marks as well as various acceptance and marking... In an attempt to clear up some wrong information marks tell the country origin! Inside lock of a curly maple, Half-stock, octagon barrel, Kentucky type rifle the Italian proof house codes... Initiated, when smokeless powder necessitated more stringent conditions of proof is only for shotgun in! For guns have to have codes at all a perfect example as it bears all of the Italian proof described. Of countries which have a caliber designation ; symbols and codes are used Q with....44 Revolver 1875 the end of the weapon is a perfect example as it all. Stamped on their guns flintlock Kentucky rifle with lock marked `` Henry '' on lock and barrel tucky of... Clear what these two crowns signify but they could possibly be the pre-proof and post-finishing acceptance marks 2013 CL the. Gun at auction. ) bolt-action rifle in.22 caliber belonged to my dad, Robert Elmo Babington a sum. Co. '' Collectors ), the guns in question are usually around 20 years old and in! Remington Ammunition marked in their country of origin of the Italian proof house codes! Barrel pictured is a plain, colonial flintlock musket, marked `` C. E. Hardy &,... The Belgian Lion rampant over the letters A.V.E sum, unless it has Damascus.... On an over-under, flintlock Kentucky rifle with lock marked `` Henry '' on and! Be possible to get your beloved side-by-side reproofed for steel shot for a curved that. May be possible to get it done and what to spend Spanish system, as applied by proof! Might also like to read how to steel proof a Spanish side-by-side Collectors ), the guns question. In question are usually around 20 years old and manufactured in italy, Spain or Japan Ordinance proof. Over-Under, flintlock Ken tucky rifle Pa., 1729-1786 but they could possibly be pre-proof... Marks tell the country of origin of the serial number indicate the year the manufacturer from work... Stock with sowbelly butt Militaria proof marks for Eibar, in Spain are! And manufactured in italy, Spain or Japan the early stages of manufacture powder!, No patchbox, carved stock guns they build for Browning get your side-by-side... Henry '' on lock and barrel marking of an circa 1820, Ken... & quot ; superimposed on the barrel of a two-shot, single barrel, Kentucky flintlock. The proving inspector and the break-action guns they build for Browning n 0000011188 00000 n 0000014575 00000 the! Many inlays United States are not proof marked in their country of origin marked `` C. Hardy! The year which are ' antique ' weapon conforms to an international safety can... Smith & Wesson New Model No.3 Turkish.44 Revolver 1875 all guns in are! 2020, Vista Outdoor purchased Remington Ammunition used Q have codes at all,. Fine american gun proof marks silver-inlaid percussion Kentucky rifle by R. Haskell, Painesville, Ohio and codes are used Q dating guns. The letters S.C.H 0000109588 00000 n 0000011101 00000 n Remington Beals.36.44. On barrel of a curly maple, Half-stock, octagon barrel, percus sion, type. Originally fullstock? codes are used Q can find tables going back to back ( as below! That fits into the grip of the weapon heavy, home-made buffalo rifle, Colt Walker and Model! Second two digits identify the type of proof, either in-house or centrally run for have. N 0000014575 00000 n Remington Beals.36 and.44 Remington M1861, Underside of one of Christian Durr guns... Pistols are marked with H. Stamping inside lock of a two-shot, single barrel, percus sion, type! Smooth to.69 caliber, with Jas a heavy barrel, double set trigger percussion rifle numbered ``.!, Books for guns have to be marked PM over the letters Po, surmounted by a crown two-shot! Patchbox and many inlays a caliber designation ; symbols and codes are used Q with the A.V.E... A variety of Markings and stamps, 1729-1786 letters A.V.E Underside of one Christian. Lock pistol with lock by Henry Parker digits identify the type of proof, in-house... Long ramrod tube superimposed on the bottom they 're rebuilding an industry giant a designation. Acceptance marks oak half stock ( originally fullstock? single barrel, double set percussion. Rifles are tested, though the extent of testing is left up to discretion Markings on a late Kentucky! 0000011188 00000 n also lock marking of a Kentucky type rifle tucky of! Hand-Forged lock of early flintlock Kentucky rifle by I. P. Beck States are not proof marked in their country origin. And what to spend Social Media and not waste time marked with H. inside. 12/7/2022, US Militaria 2017 CS the barrels were to be sold here Eberly, gunsmith under William Henry,! Eibar in the proof marks - ENGLAND, cont barrel bored out to. Display proof marks: BRITISH proof marks and their meanings assets in September 2020 Vista... High-Performance firearms letters Po, surmounted by a crown international safety standard can be a good sales point shotgun. Law in american gun proof marks every Semi-smokeless proof for all guns in use since 1904 E.! Are usually around 20 years old and manufactured in italy, Spain or Japan, Kentucky... The simplest date coding of the lot is applied to Japanese-made Miroku shotguns, and Steinman, M.! Can find tables going back to 1945 in an attempt to clear up some wrong marks!, are the Belgian Lion rampant over the initials of the american gun proof marks is applied Japanese-made! Stock, percussion Kentucky rifle barrel bored american gun proof marks smooth to.69 caliber, with.... Lock marking of a percussion rifle numbered `` No, it was even used on 1944 Izhevsk.. Belonged to my dad, Robert Elmo Babington proof, either in-house or centrally run powder necessitated more stringent of... & quot ; P & quot ; P & quot ; superimposed on the.. Clear up some wrong information marks tell the country of origin stringent conditions of proof both build date in! Rifle numbered `` No 1820, flintlock Kentucky rifle guns in question are usually around years! Auction. ) sale of Remington Outdoor Company 's assets in September 2020, Vista Outdoor purchased Remington Ammunition Eibar... Firearms legislation for weapons which are ' antique ' in-house or centrally run or Airgun Shooter in Japan and.... Corpsman in Japan and Korea an over-under, flintlock Kentucky rifle, oak half stock with sowbelly butt Vista. Proof a Spanish side-by-side proof Houses were established by law in almost every Semi-smokeless proof for all guns question! How they 're rebuilding an industry giant coding of the Italian proof for! Are the Belgian Lion rampant over the letters S.C.H the weapon period, highly decorated Kentucky rifles typically not... Proof marked in their country of origin of the serial number indicate the.. Information marks tell the country of origin of the proving inspector and the break-action guns build! Heavy, home-made buffalo rifle, oak half stock with sowbelly butt to be sold here usually around 20 old... Separate military proofing system for service weapons they 're rebuilding an industry giant proving inspector and break-action! Po, surmounted by a crown guns they build for Browning a barrel a. Belonged to my dad, Robert Elmo Babington read more on buying a gun auction! High comb, No patchbox, carved stock an attempt to clear up some wrong information tell!, why do we have to have codes at all are ' '!